[Businessmtg] Businessmtg] Consensus Determination

Thu Sep 22 10:51:12 PDT 2016

To address Darwi's statement about results: they would appear after the
person votes, not before. I set the polls in the past to NOT show the
results after the person votes, but it's easy to change that. And yes, the
poll plugin we're using right now allows for write-ins and suggestions.

Also I really think that a 'show of hands' is one issue and how it's done
is another. Everyone seems to be ok with a show of hands, but there is
disagreement on whether it be via email or online poll.

My suggestion is that we vote on a 'show of hands' being allowed and then
let the secretary decide whether s/he prefers it be via email or online
poll. She could also decide on the questions because she's the one who has
to determine if a consensus has/has not been reached. Just a thought :-)

Jane

"It is easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world." ~Stuart Smalley

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Darwi Odrade <odrade.darwi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> And that, with 37 members here means 3.7 to 7.4 persons.
> As I could detect from the emails, so far only two persons are against
> poll.
> Of course, I have no idea how many personal messages I missed, because it
> seems to me that I had to missed something. There is too much fuss around.
>
> I would maybe count myself as 0.3 against, because my concern is with
> format of the poll. As long as poll is open and write-ins are allowed,
> I’ll support the idea.
> And to offer a simple suggestion that will counter Jerry’s argument about
> members using poll not to think: if you set a poll to became visible to
> person only after that person is voted, then person will not be influenced
> with other people opinion. Person will have to think for themselves, or at
> least toss the coin by themselves and make decision.
>
> So far that is 2.3 persons against.
>
> Maybe, now is the time that people to open up, and please, remember
> Apryl’s request about short messages that summarize your position.
> Please post that summary. So far only Laura and Jerry did it.
>
> > On Sep 22, 2016, at 05:46, Gerald Hunter <logmark at comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > How about something like this:
> >
> > The chair tracks the content and at some point declares something like,
> "The chair determines a consensus exists (or does not). Are there any
> objections to the chair's observations?"
> >
> > That way all bases are covered by noting any opposition and, if
> disagreement is sufficient, return to either further discussion to address
> points of contention, or we drop the matter for lack of a significant
> consensus.
> >
> > Sufficient discord = No Consensus.
> >
> > What constitutes "sufficient?"
> > I suggest something on the order of 10-20% in disagreement means back to
> the drawing board. Remember, the goal is to get near 100% agreement (little
> or no disagreement.)
> >
> > Jerry
> > -
> >
> >
> > Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
> >> Thanks Jerry. As usual, very insightful and well said.
> >>
> >> While I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding the concept of the Chair
> >> following the meeting content and determining on her own whether we're
> near
> >> unanimity or not.  I also believe that both ASP and the Chair will be
> better
> >> for following that process - it's a matter of trust for ASP and for
> personal
> >> growth for the Chair.
> >>
> >> However, I'm willing to let the Chair ask for a show of hands (as I
> >> described a show of hands - nothing more formal than that) if she feels
> that
> >> she needs that to feel confident about her perceptions. Strictly
> voluntary
> >> and hopefully a tool that's rarely needed.
> >>
> >> Hugs,
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Businessmtg
> >> [mailto:businessmtg-bounces+steve=serenitysys.com at asp-afg.org] On
> Behalf Of
> >> Gerald Hunter
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2016 9:59 PM
> >> To: Steve - SC
> >> Cc: ASP Business
> >> Subject: [Businessmtg] Consensus Determination
> >>
> >> Biz-Pals,
> >>
> >> I've just poked my head out of the woods, so I've just now gotten to
> read
> >> through the BM messages of the past few days. Already I'm detaching
> >> emotionally and moving on to Principles.
> >>
> >> Does the person chairing a meeting using KBDM need a method to determine
> >> whether a consensus exists affirming moving forward to further
> discussion of
> >> the topic at hand or the forming of a motion?
> >>
> >> Yes. Remember, the goal is to arrive at motions which are developed by
> the
> >> participation of all members of the body and therefore more likely to be
> >> approved with near unanimity. Participation. Unity. Key words to think
> >> about.
> >>
> >> Is it not clear that we are nowhere near substantial unanimity on a
> process
> >> for determining whether a unified consensus exists on this topic in this
> >> meeting?
> >>
> >> Clear as a bell to me. Can we not set aside our personalities, think a
> >> little harder, and find a solution more agreeable to almost all? You
> ask me,
> >> if we proceed with any of the suggestions so far we risk controversy,
> not
> >> cooperation.
> >>
> >> When a lack of consensus is ignored and personal will is substituted,
> >> domination begins. I don't believe that's where any Al-Anon entity
> wants to
> >> go. Folks, we can do better. I know it.
> >>
> >> A word, please, about autonomy. ASP is not California or Michigan or
> Florida
> >> or New Jersey. How any Area runs their business does not determine how
> ASP
> >> is to run its business. When ASP's membership decided to take on full
> >> responsibility for running this meeting it was agreed by a group
> conscience
> >> to adopt the founding principles, policies, and practices ASP's founder
> had
> >> set forth. A reminder, here, that a Group Conscience trumps all.
> >>
> >> In every past meeting it has been sufficient that the chair followed the
> >> meeting content, determined that the threshold for near unanimity has
> been
> >> met (or not), then announced that a motion was to be written or the
> topic
> >> was tabled or dropped. I know I kept track of how members felt. Near
> >> unanimous agreements are pretty easy to identify.
> >>
> >> My position is that members' thoughtful input will bring to the fore
> all the
> >> good outcomes we can handle. Moving to a poll encourages members to
> rely on
> >> others for the thinking and often limits participation to aye's and
> nay's.
> >> That sounds a lot like Robert's Rules to me and why KBDM was adopted in
> the
> >> first place.
> >>
> >> Jerry
> >> -
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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