[Businessmtg] Summary of Points

[Jerry]

Laura, 
  
Thanks for the effort putting this list together. I am, however, stunned. 
  
I know you mentioned that you were biased (twice), but wow! This summary is really a list of statements favoring of points in favor, and a list of arguments against the points against. Please, this list does a disservice to the merits of the thoughtful input of those dissenting. 
  
I'm tossing in my challenge flag requesting an instant replay review. 
  
Wow! (twice) 
  
Still "love you in that very special way," 
Jerry 
- 
   
  
  

----- Original Message -----

From: "Laura M" <lauram at asp-afg.org> 
To: "Jerry H" <logmark at comcast.net> 
Cc: "ASP Business" <businessmtg at asp-afg.org> 
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 8:07:47 PM 
Subject: [Businessmtg] Summary of Points 

Apryl asked me to do a summary of the for and against points of the issue 
at hand. 

I find that I am biased and feel I could not give an accurate accounting. 
However, I will tackle what I have seen as the issues around it. 

Bear in mind that this is my opinion, and because I am close to the issue, 
I cannot be unbaised. I see things from my point of view, which I know is 
different than other very vocal members. 

Here is what the original agenda item stated: 
"Requiring a show of hands poll before a motion is accepted in the business 
meeting (voting required)" 

Looking at this, I see that I did a poor job of phrasing the agenda item. 

What this was supposed to mean: the chair needs to make sure that the group 
has reached consensus before moving on to forming a motion that can be 
voted on. 

What I feel it has become: the chair has the ability to ask for show of 
hands to ensure that consensus has been reached before moving on to either 
forming a motion, tabling it or abandoning it. 

Points for: 

   - All members would be able to indicate where they stood. It would give 
   members another chance to speak up, even if they felt they had nothing more 
   to add to the discussion. 
   - It would eliminate the guesswork of the chair since the clues present 
   in a face to face meeting are not present, e.g. the body language and 
   facial expression. 
   - If would capture members changing opinions as they consider the issues 
   and discussion, even if they don't share to the group that they have 
   changed their minds. 
   - Given that not everyone reads the emails at the same time, people may 
   or may not be present with the current discussion, unlike a face to face 
   meeting where everyone hearing the same information at the same time. This 
   would give the person a chance to process everything and indicate where 
   they were. 

Points against: 

   - That this would constitute a vote on the issue.  It wouldn't, because 
   the motion wouldn't have been formed at that time. 
   - That it would make other members go with the majority without thinking 
   about it. This could happen even on a vote, and all members are asked to 
   remember that "participation is the key to harmony". 
   - That it wasn't done like this in the past. The only thing I can say to 
   that is that I am not the other people who were doing this job, and I feel 
   this is necessary to make sure minority voices are heard and not drowned 
   out by the dominance of other members. 
   - That it would be secret. The original agenda item doesn't say anything 
   about that. This is to be determined by the business meeting. 
   - That this isn't in line with our traditions. I don't know what to say 
   to that. 
   - That this isn't in line with KBDM. It seems to me that there are two 
   camps on this, and honestly I see points on both sides. However, it should 
   be noted that we don't follow strict KBDM as it is.. 
   - The word "requiring" is in the agenda item. As a reminder, this is a 
   discussion, not a motion. I see the point of objection about "requiring" 
   since it is already required that the chair determine consensus in some 
   way. So that should come out, IMO. 

Some things to note: 

   - The agenda item doesn't say how the show of hands poll is to be done. 
   That would be up to the chair. Personally, I think it would be dependent on 
   the item. If there were no opposition or discussion, an email would work. 
   If it were a more complex situation, the chair would have the option of 
   doing a web-based poll on our site. 
   - The agenda item doesn't say what is on the poll. Again, I feel this 
   would have to be dependent on the issue. If it was an issue of "have we 
   discussed this enough?" the options would be different than on something we 
   would be forming a motion on and voting on. 

I hope this helps, and doesn't poke the hive again. 

Hugs, 
Laura M 
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