[Businessmtg] Fwd: Archives

Tue Nov 27 10:01:01 PST 2018

In reply to BJ's answer to the last question posed, my answer would simply be:

ASP's administrative choices, absent reasonable proof that they are significantly and negatively "affecting another Group or Al-Anon or AA as a whole*", do supersede others' interpretations of what an individual Al-Anon Group/meeting can and cannot do.

Somebody has to demonstrate the harm before calling for limitations on ASP's autonomy.

*Tradition 4
- - - - -

It's also worth adding in response that it is not ASP which sees itself as so different from other Al-Anon Groups, it is the WSO which refuses to see us as an "Al-Anon Family Group" at all, designating us as a "meeting," an outreach effort, and without elected representation anywhere within the Al-Anon structure. A good, hard look at Tradition 3 says we are, indeed, an Al-Anon Family Group - unless "gathered together for mutual aid" is interpreted so narrowly as to mean "gathered" must be face-to-face [There are no must's in Al-Anon?]. Are we not gathered for mutual aid here at ASP?

Hey, I get it - electronic media are changing many past definitions of social structure. It will take a while for Al-Anon to sort out future directions. My lead comes from another area where Al-Anon has been expansive in interpretation of its language: Tradition 3 specifically says that, "The relatives of alcoholics,...may call themselves an Al-Anon Family Group...", but this has become interpreted as including anyone deeply affected by someone else's drinking elsewhere in CAL - friends, family, employees, employers, neighbors, etc., etc. Expansive interpretation.

I support Al-Anon becoming more expansive regarding on-line recovery forums in much this same way.

Hugs,
Jerry
-

> On November 27, 2018 at 8:25 AM Bubbe Turner <bjqt1945 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Steve, I did not ask about deleting "specific shares".  My concern was and
> is technical and financial.  What I asked relates to deleting shares
> periodically to prevent problems with a server, i.e. overload, added cost,
> slowing it down, etc.  It is a fact that some listservs charge by number of
> members, number of archived material,  etc.  so it makes financial  sense,
> if no other, to occasionally  clean house.
> 
> Also, I have seen others confused about (and I experience it too)  of not
> knowing if my personal share went through to the recovery meeting or not.
> Seems like with your system, individual shares would show up to the sender
> too.
> 
> So  you are saying that the "Founders Guidelines" for ASP outrank the
> principles of  Al-Anon and that makes ASP different from any other group?
> That borders on making ASP not Al-Anon but an entity unto itself.
> 
> BJ
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 11:35 PM Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi BJ,
> >
> > Everyone should understand that ASP is not some other Al-Anon meeting. It
> > never has been nor was that ever our goal. We are structured differently
> > than others; both how we function as a group and how we function
> > technically.
> >
> > As I mentioned before, the archives are all or nothing. It's a simple
> > switch
> > on the server Mailman software; Yes or No.
> >
> > Select yes, and the server creates one small text file every month. Select
> > no, and they disappear. Poof!
> >
> > Fact. The ASP archives exist. They are ASP property. Who has the right and
> > authority to destroy them? No one individual. Only the group conscience can
> > make that decision now.
> >
> > As for removing or not archiving specific shares? That is not possible.
> > Besides, that seems a lot like personalities over principles IMO. We don't
> > pick and choose whose shares are archived and whose or not. Nor do we
> > remove
> > shares that we don't like regardless of the reason. Bottom line there . . .
> > why? We can argue the principles of yes and no, but limits? Those are
> > arbitrary compromises that don't satisfy any principles other than another
> > attempt to make everyone happy, which never seems to work.
> >
> > Our server.
> >
> > ASP contracts with a provider and pays rent for a dedicated server. This
> > means that we can do whatever we wish on that server as long there is room
> > on the hard drive. Our dedicated server account allows us to use as much
> > bandwidth as we wish, up to the limits of that machine. Of course, we are
> > paying for a base machine not something big and fancy. If we do things that
> > slow down the service to the meeting, well that's our fault and we
> > experience the consequences.
> >
> > This is very different than what other Al-Anon groups do. Some have Yahoo
> > accounts that host their meetings on Yahoo Groups. Others contract with a
> > provider for a "shared server". Pricing on a shared server is generally
> > based on bandwidth - how much traffic do you have: number of subscribers X
> > number of messages/month. Either pay for plenty of bandwidth in advance, or
> > get service cut when you exceed what you have paid for, or the service
> > grinds to a near stop as the service is "throttled" because you've gone
> > over
> > your allotted bandwidth. When we were preparing to transition in 2006 we
> > priced service for the bandwidth we were using. Yikes, it was going to cost
> > us well over $200/month, probably $300/month. Then, Dawn saved the day when
> > she found our current provider that gives us a dedicated server for about
> > $100/month.
> >
> > Space vs. bandwidth.
> >
> > Space on a hard drive is cheap. Ridiculously cheap. My personal website,
> > which includes the original ASP website has over 20,000 files on it, yet
> > I'm
> > using less than 5% of my allotted space. Data just sits on a hard drive. It
> > does nothing but take up a little bit of space. Of course, it does use some
> > bandwidth when someone accesses the ASP site and requests a web page. That
> > happens a few dozen times a day; nothing compared to the 90,000 messages
> > the
> > server processes every day.
> >
> > Bandwidth is expensive. That's because the provider has to buy bandwidth,
> > that they resell sell to customers like us. Remember the good ol' days when
> > your long distance & cell phone calls cost by the minute.
> >
> > Plus, bandwidth requires computer TIME. It takes computer time for the
> > server to receive a message, re-format the message for the list, and then
> > send it to every address on the mailing list. If you need very little
> > bandwidth, you don't have to have a powerful server. But, as your bandwidth
> > requirements increase, you need more powerful computers to process the
> > information and those cost more money, which means more expensive service.
> >
> > Lastly, while ASP does not have the largest number of subscribed members,
> > we
> > do have the most active membership which results in the largest bandwidth
> > requirement of any online Al-Anon meeting. And unlike other online
> > meetings,
> > ASP has always been fully self-supporting declining outside contributions.
> >
> > Hugs,
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > The ASP Instruction page is http://asp-afg.org/members/asp-instructions/
> >
> > The ASP web site for ASP members is http://www.asp-afg.org/Members/
> >
> > For assistance with other ASP issues, contact Jerry the List
> > Administrator, at  la at asp-afg.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Businessmtg mailing list
> > Businessmtg at asp-afg.org
> > http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/businessmtg
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> The ASP Instruction page is http://asp-afg.org/members/asp-instructions/
> 
> The ASP web site for ASP members is http://www.asp-afg.org/Members/
> 
> For assistance with other ASP issues, contact Jerry the List Administrator, at  la at asp-afg.org
> 
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