[Businessmtg] FW: Gross Error in Table [Motion #4 Update Topic - Opening Part 1]

Tue Sep 14 05:11:04 PDT 2021

To be clear: The Business Meeting does not have the authority to alter or amend Founding or Core Policy. Only a 75% affirmative vote by the entire ASP Membership can do this.

There is, as I read the Statement and Policies as a whole, no difference between "founding policy" and "core policy." They appear to be used as synonyms, except, perhaps, "core policy" could refer to any amendments the group would enact - a distinction of little merit. 

However, there's a catch: the Business Meeting does not have the authority to make ANY change to the language of the Founding Policy - even so simple an amendment as removing a word. We are locked into the wording as it exists unless the Business Meeting were to propose any wording changes to the entire membership and get a 75% approval vote in response.

The likelihood of that being nil, I support dropping this portion of proposed Motion 4 changes from our consideration and that we focus on those potential changes which are within our authority.

In service,
Jerry H.
-

On September 14, 2021, at 12:05 AM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:

Hi Jerry,
You are absolutely correct.  
However, I believe the solution is simple: delete the word "core" from the
recommended change to the 4th bullet under "Business Meeting".   I have
changed the font on the right (recommended) side of the table to
strike-through in red to make the point.
The Business Meeting does have the authority to change ASP policy - the
Steering Committee does not.  However, the Business Meeting does not have
the authority to change "core" policies as defined in our Founding Statement
& Policies.
Thanks and hugs,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Businessmtg On Behalf Of Jerry H.
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 8:04 PM
To: steve at serenitysys.com
Cc: ASP Business <businessmtg at asp-afg.org>
Subject: [Businessmtg] Gross Error in Table [Motion #4 Update Topic -
Opening Part 1]

Biz-Pals,

There is a gross error in the table Steve made up for us
(https://tinyurl.com/j3557b7s) and any similar publication of it.

I can't say that the error is entirely Steve's because the error is also
built into Motion #4 which he, I, and many other members of the Business
Meetings voted on back in 2006. We all overlooked this point. In fact the
Business Meeting did not then and does not now have the authority or power
to implement the following language from Motion #4 and which Steve's
comparison list restates:

(Erroneous Bullet Point 4 on Comparison List) "Changes to ASP core policies
require 2/3 majority of subscribed membership of Business Committee"

This is patently false. Motion #4 as passed is in this part illegitimate
because ASP's Founding Statement and Policies clearly define the
requirements to change Founding and Core Policies as 75% of the full
membership of ASP.

ASP Policy states:

"These Founding Policies are subject to amendment by substantial unanimity
of the FULL MEMBERSHIP [emphasis added] of A Serenity Place. Amendments are
defined as changes to Core Policies and will be added to the end of this
list of policies. Substantial unanimity is defined to be the same as that
required to change the Steps, Traditions or Concepts at the fellowship
level; 75% of all members must affirm the change."

The Founding Policies go on to reiterate this requirement in the first item
on it's list regarding Group Consciences:

"At A Serenity Place taking the group conscious will follow these
guidelines:
a) Amendment to Founding Policies is defined above."

75% of the full ASP membership has never approved lowering the requirement
to change Founding or Core Policies to 2/3rds of the Business Meeting.

Because the comparison list provided to the Business Meeting continues to
misstate this I believe this important detail needs to be corrected before
this error continues to be held forth as ASP Policy and therefore part of
the background info for these Motion #4 discussions.

In service,
Jerry H.
-

> On 09/13/2021 3:58 PM Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
> 
>  
> Hi ASPers . . . aka Part 1 of the opening of this topic.
> Once again, due to the amount of material involved and the fact that 
> we have new members joining us in the Business Meeting, I'm splitting 
> my opening on this topic into several parts.  This is Part 1.
> I know it's a lot, and probably most of it is tedious to read, but 
> it's important that the members of ASP understand what is happening.  
> If you've been here for the entire discussion, I wouldn't be surprised if
you skipped
> reading all of this.   OTOH, if you haven't been here during the previous
> discussions of Motion #4, please please read it.  
> This month's agenda focuses on updating Motion #4 passed in 2006.  We 
> had an open discussion on this at our last meeting.  That was 
> interesting, but a bit counterproductive, so this month we will focus 
> on 1 single portion of this issue at a time, with the goal of reaching 
> a consensus on each of the 3 sections we'll discuss.
> The three sections of Motion #4 that we'll discuss this month are:
> 1.	Group Representative
> 2.	Web Master rolled into Secretary
> 3.	Founders
> As always, there are members in this meeting that we're in the last 
> meeting, as well as members that don't recall much about Motion #4 
> anyway, so I am sending separate messages addressing "What is Motion 
> #4" and what is the background behind it.
> Here is a link to a web page I created that shows the specific changes 
> side-by-side with the original and current Motion #4.
> https://tinyurl.com/j3557b7s
> The full version of the URL is:
> http://www.serenitysys.com/A_Serenity_Place/Business/nbm/asp_service_s
> tructu
> re_COMPARISON.html
> What happens now?
> We will discuss the changes to the Secretary & Web Master sections of 
> the recommendation for the next 7 days.  The discussion may be 
> specific or general.  The discussion includes Q&A.  The discussion is 
> open to possible wordsmithing changes, but any suggested changes 
> should be presented with an explanation of how it better follows 
> Al-Anon principles or is an improvement.
> After 7 days, this discussion may be tabled, or not, depending on the 
> flow of the discussion.  Ideally, we will have reached a consensus, 
> and if so, I will post that consensus before we move on to the next
section.
> NO DECISION WILL BE MADE NOW.  If we reach a consensus on each section 
> by the end of the month, then we will vote on the entire updated Motion
#4.
> Because this is a major change in ASP, our policy requires that we 
> discuss this at a minimum of 3 Business Meetings before any motion may 
> be made or vote taken.  Since this is the 3rd month of discussion, we 
> may reach a consensus and vote this month.
> Hopefully, we will have a solid consensus this month so we can 
> entertain a motion then, and vote on it.
> Love and SERENITY,
> Steve
> 
> 
> ____________________________
> To Unsubscribe, go to: http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/asp
> The ASP web site with all kinds of info for ASP members is 
> http://asp-afg.org/members/ For assistance with other ASP issues, 
> contact Steve the Founder of ASP, at steve at serenitysys.com

At A Serenity Place taking the group conscious will follow these guidelines:

____________________________
To Unsubscribe, go to: http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/asp
The ASP web site with all kinds of info for ASP members is
http://asp-afg.org/members/ For assistance with other ASP issues, contact
Steve the Founder of ASP, at steve at serenitysys.com

____________________________
To Unsubscribe, go to: http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/asp
The ASP web site with all kinds of info for ASP members is http://asp-afg.org/members/
For assistance with other ASP issues, contact Steve the Founder of ASP, at steve at serenitysys.com