[Businessmtg] FW: More questions - Re: By-laws review

[Anne K]

Thank you. I have no further questions. 

Anne

> On Jan 14, 2022, at 4:39 PM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Anne K.,
> ANNEK., - Article III Section 1 B talks about ASP Officers and refers to
> Article V Section 4 which is actually Steering Committee Meetings. Perhaps
> you meant Article V Section 2 Definition of Members? 
> STEVE:  Not really.  This simply states that the ASP officers are also
> members of ASP.  There are other organizations where this is not true, hence
> this statement. 
> ANNEK - I'm sorry, I was not clear. I believe the reference to Article V
> Section 4 is incorrect.  - Article III Section 1 B is " ASP Officers: ASP
> officers, as defined in Article V, Section 4, are also members of ASP.
> Article V Section 4 is " Steering Committee Meetings. A. Meetings are called
> and chaired by the ASP List Administrator. Article V Section 2 defines the
> steering committee members. 
> STEVE: OK, I think I understand what you are trying to say now.  The
> reference to Article V, Section 4 in Article III, Section 1.B. should be to
> Article V Section 2, not 4.  Corrected.  
> ==========================
> - Article IV Section 4 - ..."a substantial majority (more than 67%) of votes
> cast..."   Both the ASP Service Structure and the Founding Policies of
> Motion 4 on the ASP Website refer to a " ...2/3 majority of voting
> members..."  As I'm sure you know, 2/3 is 66.6666667% so I understand the
> 67%. However, the addition of the words "more than" in the proposed bylaws
> seems to be a new requirement from ASP existing policy. Would you please
> explain the rationale behind the additional words? 
> STEVE:  Agreed. The draft has been updated to more accurately comply with
> the Founding Policies.
> ANNEK. No questions - thank you for re-numbering the sections as well
> STEVE:  You are quite welcome.
> ==========================
> - Article VIII Section 2 F a - "If the List Administrator is unable to
> complete his/her term, then the next Alternate List Administrator will serve
> the office of List Administrator for a three-year term beginning at that
> time.  The previous office of that new List Administrator will then become
> vacant."  From the Service Structure, Alternate List Administrator #1 is the
> Secretary. The way I read this part of the proposed by-laws, the Secretary
> position is signing up for potentially 6 years of service. This wording is
> not in the Service Structure or Motion 4. Would you please explain why we
> wouldn't be electing a new List Administrator?
> STEVE: The List Administrator position is the one position that must be
> filled continuously.  Hence, this is the only position with a defined
> succession in the case of a vacancy.  Considering the realities that officer
> positions at ASP often go vacant for long periods of time, the length of
> time involved with electing an officer, and the investment of time and
> energy made by an alternate thrust into the List Administrator position, the
> honor of serving the full term is automatically available to an alternate.
> Could that result in 6 years of service?  Technically, that would be
> possible, however that would be highly unlikely.
> ANNEK - I would like to discuss the sfurther. I"m not against there being an
> alternate to the List Administrator position. I think having the alternate
> fulfill a 3 year term automatically is asking a lot of a person. Could it be
> an option for the alternate to fulfill a 3 year term as LA, otherwise it is
> a temporary position until a new LA is found or something like that? I feel
> this needs more discussion. 
> STEVE:  May I share a few thoughts?  
> First, the bylaws are not a place for options.  The bylaws are the "law" of
> the group that govern everyone in the group, however in reality the bylaws
> govern the officers more than the regular members.  That should be obvious
> because the majority of the bylaws discuss the responsibilities and actions
> of the officers.  Additionally, there is only consequence for a member
> violating the bylaws is to get booted out of the group, while an officer is
> not only accountable to the group, but to government authorities.  
> Second, creating options in the bylaws exponentially expands the
> opportunities for mistakes, confusion, differences of interpretation and so
> on.  Linda asked to keep it simple, and in this case, I definitely agree
> with her.  The bylaws need to say "If A happens, then do Q."  
> Third, your example of concern was that the Alternate might wind up being
> obligated to serve 6 years.  As I noted, that would require perfect timing.
> It is equally probable that the timing could work out in the opposite
> direction where the Alternate was only obligated to serve just days over the
> 3 years she was initially elected for. Consider the sole example we have had
> in ASP.  Beverly's election as Secretary was announced on Dec 1, 2019, Jerry
> announced submitted his resignation on March 1, 2020 effective April 1st.
> In this case, Beverly would have served for 40 months instead of 36 months.
> 
> Fourth, regardless of what we stipulate in the bylaws, the officer always
> has the ability to resign, which is exactly what Beverly did.  
> Fifth, I think it is a mistake to assume anything about the Alternate's
> interest in rotating into the List Administrator position.  Some might see
> it as an impossible burden while others might be secretly harboring a dream
> of serving as List Administrator.  
> My suggestion is to leave it as is and deal with the results when and if
> needed.
> ==========================
> ANNEK Also I had a couple general comments at the end - the first one you
> took care of but I did not see any changes for the second: 
> - Article VIII Section 2 B - it appears that some of the wording from A is
> in B
> STEVE:  You are correct.  The bylaws were drafted in MS Word, then pasted
> into HTML software for posting on my website.  Unfortunately, it appears the
> HTML software's behavior suggests it needs to go to more meetings.   
> I've fixed it and updated the PDF on the ASP website, and I renamed the PDF
> with today's date.
> I'll post the updated links separately for everyone's convenience.
> Love and SERENITY,
> Steve
> 
> 
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