[Businessmtg] Next topic - ASP Recovery Meeting archives

Tue Jul 8 07:52:19 PDT 2025

Biz-Pals,

First, a suggestion: The summary notes included with the Chair's introduction do not entirely represent the full discussions on this topic we've had over the past two Business Meetings where this has been discussed. I recommend that BM members go back to the BM records to get the full discussions upon which this 3rd BM discussion concludes. All three BM meetings ought be considered in full as we fulfill this last requirement before a motion could be formulated and voted on. See at: https://asp-afg.org/members/business-meeting/

In general terms my objections to retaining archives of members' shares in perpetuity revolve around not just Al-Anon's Principles of the Anonymity of individuals, but the anonymity of what one member choses to say at one meeting with the expectation that...

> "Whom you see here, what you hear here, when you leave here, let it stay here."

Any Al-Anon member coming into ASP from the face-to-face world recognizes that what a member chooses to share within any one individual meeting is excluded from a) members of that group who didn't happen to be in that particular meeting on that particular day, and b) from being shared in other meetings, or shared with other members outside of the group.

> "Everything that is said here, in the group meeting and member-to-member, must be held in confidence. Only in this way can we feel free to say what is in our minds and hearts for this is how we help one another in Al-Anon."
> "The things you heard were spoken in confidence and should be treated as confidential. Keep them within the walls of this room and the confines of your mind."

ASP, our electronic meeting - which claims to "conduct business like any face-to-face group" - has been bypassing these principles by maintaining archives of every word of every share anyone ever makes in any topic meeting.

-- This is enough for me to be 100% against maintaining an archive of topic meeting shares which are made available to the general membership.

    I do not accept the argument that because some newcomers or interested members occasionally use the topic share archives to "catch up" or otherwise research topics OR the collected personal shares an individual. Do they? Some, but few. It is my position, in addition to my notes above, that each daily topic meeting is a group meeting in the traditional sense. Those in attendance are privy to what is said in that meeting; those who are not aren't.

    No archive access for the general ASP membership.

-- As to the use of archives by the group's Administration when problems with come up with complaints or problems surrounding any individual's behaviors - as a former ASP List Administrator who has seen a problem or two which required discussions within ASP's officer ranks in order to resolve a matter, yes. I see that purpose as necessary.

    Yes, but archive access is limited to the minimum number of group officers necessary to resolve specific problems as they may arise.

SUGGESTION 
A compromise possibility - providing archive access to a limited number of ASP officers for official use, but prevent any archive access by general ASP members

Lastly, I repeat my suggestion that members of this Business Meeting avail themselves of past BM discussions on this topic. Limiting references to past objections to maintaining archives to, "Keeping shares in any way goes against the principles of anonymity" doesn't reflect the body of the shares in the prior two business meetings on this topic. KBDM requires we be fully informed before we attempt a motion.

In service,
Jerry H.
-

On July 8, 2025, at 7:27 AM, aohara77--- via Businessmtg <businessmtg at asp-afg.org> wrote:

Please note that the financial reports have been posted to the ASP Members
site and can be found here.  Financial Reports | ASP Members Only Web Site
<https://asp-afg.org/members/financial-reports/> 

*****The discussion of the trusted servant reports has now ended, and we
move on to our next topic, which is a discussion of archives at ASP. We will
discuss this topic until July 14th.  

This discussion includes the potential for making a major change at ASP and
so this is the third of three business meetings that we will be discussing
this topic. There will not be any motions or votes on this topic during this
business meeting. Also, we are using the KBDM method for discussion. Please
see here for more details: https://asp-afg.org/members/kbdm/

This is a complicated topic. Please ask questions. A short summary is below.
But please remember that the Business meeting archives are the official
record of our October and January Business meeting discussion of the
archives - the BM archives are the official record of our BMs.
https://asp-afg.org/members/business-meeting/

It is very complicated, and I have copied much of what the Business meeting
chair summarized for the group ahead of our last meeting.  

ASP keeps all shares going back to 2006 when Steve transferred the meeting
to the membership. These shares are kept on the ASP server in a password
protected archive. Only current ASP members have access to these archives
using a password unique to their account. When a member leaves ASP, they no
longer have access to the archives. Please note that these are the official
ASP archives stored on an ASP server and are separate from any personal
archives that any ASP member could choose to make on their email
client/server of all email shares that they receive while they are a member.
ASP has no control over how members use the email shares that are sent to
their email addresses, although we have multiple places where we encourage
members to follow the Al anon principles and to keep those shares private.

The archives are used in different ways by our members and by the Steering
Committee:  I spent most of yesterday reviewing the January archives to see
what, if anything changed since the last time, we opened the discussion and
found that we ended in January without a clear consensus.  And some
highlights from the last two meetings follow.

*Newcomers, or any member who needs them, can use them as a resource to read
shares on a topic that they have immediate need of - they are essentially an
instant meeting on the topic they need.

*Some members have issues with their email clients sending all of their ASP
mail to their inbox (this is not on the ASP side, this is their email
client) and so some members use the archives as a way of reading the daily
shares.

*The Steering Committee uses the archives in various ways, most often when
dealing with a member whose shares they need to review in the course of
their duties. But they are also used to get data that the List Administrator
reports to the group.

Some concerns brought up last time -

*Are members aware that there is an archive and that their shares are kept
indefinitely for the uses stated above?

*Keeping shares in any way goes against the principles of anonymity.

*Safety concerns of people not in ASP gaining access to shares through
members devices and using those shares against them. Or joining ASP under
false pretenses to gain access to the archives. (**we have no evidence this
has ever happened in the nearly 20 years where archives have been available
at ASP.)

Some possible future actions for the Business meeting to take that were
mentioned last meeting (all up for discussion, including ones I have
probably forgotten or new ones):

*The archives are currently mentioned here
https://asp-afg.org/members/member-instructions/. Could we modify our
greeting process to make it more explicit that the archive exists, its
purpose, and use? Include strategies for a new member to be "more" anonymous
if that is something a member wishes?

*Stop archiving shares as of a date set by the Business Meeting. This would
not affect the existing archives. This was last voted on by the business
meeting in Feb 2019 in Motion 19, which failed to pass
https://asp-afg.org/members/group-conscience/

*Stop archiving shares and delete the archive. This is irreversible. And it
is the reason we are discussing this for 3 business meetings before even
discussing if we have a consensus as this is a major change that cannot be
undone.

*Maintain the archives but limit access to them - accessible to Steering
Committee members only

This topic is open for discussion.

Anne 

____________________________
To Unsubscribe, go to: http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/asp
The ASP web site with all kinds of info for ASP members is http://asp-afg.org/members/
For assistance with other ASP issues, contact Lynne, the List Administrator of ASP, at lynne at asp-afg.org