[Businessmtg] Motion and operationalizing +

[Tammy Louise]

Jerry and all,
I don't read motion 22 as 2/3 of the entire membership, I read it as 2/3 of
those subscribed to the business committee.

I also don't think that getting into a conversation about semantics is
helpful to the process we are currently working through.

My best,
Tammy


On Thu, Jul 17, 2025, 7:24 PM Jerry via Businessmtg <businessmtg at asp-afg.org>
wrote:

> Biz-Pals,
>
> There is one important part in Steve's message which conflicts with ASP's
> Founding Policies. Steve's quote from Motion #22 is accurate. The problem
> is in the wording of that motion. "...by a substantial unanimity of
> subscribed membership of [the] Business Committee."
>
> All would be well except the use of "subscribed membership."
>
> Our Founding Policies describe exactly what it takes to pass a motion -
> who make up the base number of participants from which the 2/3rds vote in
> the affirmative is necessary to pass motions of this significance.
>
> Founding Policy clearly states that it takes 2/3rds of VOTING members to
> pass a motion:
> "b) Substantive changes to the meeting (affects the majority of the
> membership) require a 2/3 majority of voting members"
>
> Motion #22 has a flaw in that it gives "subscribed members" as the base
> number for the 2/3 threshold instead of "voting members."
>
> Since Founding Policies can only be changed by a 2/3rds majority vote OF
> THE ENTIRE ASP membership (which has never happened) and the Business
> Meeting has no authority to alter Founding Policy, all motions must use the
> Founding Policy's proscribed method to count votes: "2/3 majority of
> voters."
>
> I bring this up here for two reasons:
> 1) Motion #22's wording, using "subscribed members" of the Business
> Meeting, changes the math required by Founding Policy to pass this motion
> without the authority to do so.
>
> An Example:
> Suppose there are 22 members in a Business Meeting. The count on a motion
> is 14 in favor, 3 votes against, and 0 abstentions.
> ~ Using our Founding Policy there are 14 votes in favor, 3 votes against,
> & 0 abstentions.
> 14/17 = greater than 2/3rds. Motion PASSES.
> ~ Using "subscribed members" there are 14 votes in favor, 3 votes against,
> & 0 abstentions. (5 did not vote.)
> 14/22 = less than 2/3 in favor. Motion FAILS.
>
> 2) If we were to accept Motion #22's wording as the standard for
> establishing what constitutes substantial unanimity over the Founding
> Policy's requirements we would not only be ignoring ASP Founding Policy on
> this point. We would be opening the door to ignoring any or all other
> Founding Policies according to any whim of the day.
>
> Jerry
> -
>
>
>
> On July 17, 2025, at 12:53 PM, Steve Rankin via Businessmtg <
> businessmtg at asp-afg.org> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Mary is not only spot on in her perception of a difference between policy
> and how policy is operationalized, she just pointed out the key difference
> between the authority of the membership in the Business Meeting and the
> authority of the members of the Steering Committee as they perform their
> duties in the day-to-day operation of ASP.
>
> ASP's Motion #22 clearly states that the Business Meeting "Establish
> general meeting policies by substantial unanimity of subscribed membership
> of Business Committee."
> <
> https://www.serenitysys.com/A_Serenity_Place/Business/nbm/asp_service_structure_revised_OCT_2021.html
> >
>
> Please note that the group conscience authority is limited to GENERAL
> policies. When it comes to IMPLEMENTING policy, Motion #22 states that the
> Steering Committee is responsible for the "Implementation of ASP policy &
> practices."
>
> In other words, here in the Business Meeting we have no business telling
> the Steering Committee HOW to implement policy.  That includes details such
> as when to implement policy, how to inform the membership, etc.  Since the
> Business Meeting does not have the authority to specify implementation
> details, it follows that discussion of those details belong to the Steering
> Committee, not the Business Meeting.  Likewise, the Steering Committee may
> discuss implementation details, however in the end, the final decision
> generally belongs to the individual member of the Steering Committee who is
> responsible for the implementation.
>
> Regardless of who we are or where we fall in this process of policy making
> and implementation, we need to trust the others in the process.
>
> Love and SERENITY,
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Businessmtg On Behalf Of Mary Abbott via Businessmtg
> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2025 6:44 AM
> To: steve at serenitysys.com
> Cc: ASP Business <businessmtg at asp-afg.org>
> Subject: [Businessmtg] Motion and operationalizing
>
>  I’m fine with the wording of the motion. I see a difference between
> policy and how it is operationalized. The motion and vote will set the
> policy. I feel comfortable letting the SC figure out how to operationalize
> how the policy is executed. So, I’m fine with the SC figuring out how to
> let the membership know of the new policy and giving a notice about the
> details of how archives will no longer being available to the membership.
> Mary A Sent from my iPhone ____________________________ To Unsubscribe, go
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>