[Businessmtg] Show Of Hands

[Laura M]

We are not at the point where we can entertain a motion of any sort.

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:

> Hi ASPers,
>
>
>
> While this idea sounds good on the surface, I have a major problems with
> it.
> Please stick with me while I explain . . .
>
>
>
> First, understand that the Al-Anon Group Conscience is based on the members
> becoming INFORMED during the discussion process and the result is
> SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY. If the discussion is short-circuited and the members
> do not become well informed during the discussion, then the process fails
> and the result is no better than a popular vote by people that know little
> if anything about the issue.
>
>
>
> Similarly, SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY is required for everything but the
> simplest
> housekeeping matters where an informal "poll" (nodding of heads) is
> acceptable. On all other matters, there MUST be SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY. In
> other words, a mere simple majority does not suffice. A minimum of a 2/3's
> majority is required for most issues, and a 3/4's majority required for
> some
> issues.
>
>
>
> Historically, Al-Anon has said that it didn't follow Robert's Rules of
> Order
> in meetings, while in fact that is exactly what it did. That changed in
> April 2006 when the Al-Anon Board of Trustees announced at the World
> Service
> Conference that it had adopted the KBDM process. [I'm posting a history of
> the KBDM process in a separate message]
>
>
>
> On May 1, 2006 ASP completed the process of changing from 10 years of
> operating on my personal server & guidance, to operating on a server paid
> for by 7th Tradition contributions and with a full suite of elected
> officers. A member of ASP brought the concept of the KBDM process to ASP
> Business Meeting sometime after that, and a Group Conscience was taken to
> adopt the new KBDM process. Information on KBDM was limited at the time,
> and
> personal experience with the process was virtually non-existent. So, rather
> than trying to "wing it" we took what we understood about the process and
> created a detailed outline to follow. The ASP version of the KBDM process
> is
> found at:
>
>
>
>  <http://asp-afg.org/members/business-meeting-process-at-asp/>
> http://asp-afg.org/members/business-meeting-process-at-asp/
>
>
>
>
>
> The leadership of ASP is expected to follow the ASP KBDM process as it is
> written.
>
>
>
> The problem is that "taking a poll" at ASP is in reality taking a vote -
> and
> that short-circuits the entire KBDM process. Worse, the Chair is suggesting
> that taking a poll is mandatory. IMHO, taking a poll is the wrong thing to
> do. A simpler, quicker and more effective way would be for the Chair to
> simply ask that members who haven't spoken yet or who have changed their
> minds, to please speak up now so the Chair can have a better feeling for
> the
> consensus, if any. That technique not only avoids the admin hassles of a
> poll/vote, it avoids short-circuiting the KBDM process.  I could go on, but
> IMHO it's really a mute point. Let me explain  . . .
>
>
>
> In researching KBDM process, I discovered that there is a significant
> difference between the basic process at ASP and the basic process as
> described at several Al-Anon AWS sites. I'll describe that difference by
> describing the core process at ASP and the core process as it now works in
> Al-Anon as a whole:
>
>
>
> A. At ASP we have one phase of discussion where facts and opinions are
> comingled. What we often see in ASP is many members sharing their opinions
> on an issue before the facts have been presented. This tends to make the
> process very muddy as facts are obfuscated by opinions. You can see that
> during the current "discussion" in the Business Meeting where 6 members
> have
> stated their opinion, yet no one has posted anything factual or informative
> on the subject. How can we have an INFORMED Group Conscience with nothing
> but opinions [such as "I'm in favor . . ."], but no information? We can't.
> Opinions at the beginning of the process do nothing to inform and tend to
> stiffle the discussion - opinions belong at the tail end of the process.
>
>
>
> B. The KBDM process at the Al-Anon Areas separate the fact & opinion
> phases.
> In the fact phase comes first. Members are allowed to ask questions,
> members
> are allowed to answer questions, and the Chair may ask specific members to
> respond/answer specific questions. Opinions are not allowed during the fact
> phase; the Chair may even stop a member from sharing their opinions during
> the fact phase. Once the fact phase has been completed, all questions
> answered and all the facts have been presented, then the opinion phase
> begins. During the opinion phase, members are allowed to make brief (2
> minutes in f2f meetings) statements of their opinion.
>
>
>
> I believe that this difference in KBDM process is critical and needs to be
> addressed before any other changes are considered, including any other
> substantive motions regardless of the subject.
>
>
>
> As a result, I recommend that the current discussion be tabled, and ASP
> modify the written KBDM process used at ASP to reflect the current
> processes
> used by face-to-face Al-Anon World Service Areas. I suggest that the
> Steering Committee study this issue and bring an updated KBDM process to
> the
> Business Meeting for approval.
>
>
>
> FYI: There the Colorado Al-Anon website has an excellent slide show on how
> the Al-Anon KBDM process works in detail:
>
>
>
>  <http://www.al-anon-co.org/images/A5_Delegate_ColoradoKBDM.pdf>
> http://www.al-anon-co.org/images/A5_Delegate_ColoradoKBDM.pdf
>
>
>
> Hugs,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The ASP Instruction page is http://asp-afg.org/members/asp-instructions/
>
> The ASP web site for ASP members is http://www.asp-afg.org/Members/
>
> For assistance with other ASP issues, contact the List Administrator, at
> list_administrator at asp-afg.org <javascript:;>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Businessmtg mailing list
> Businessmtg at asp-afg.org <javascript:;>
> http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/businessmtg
>