[Businessmtg] Show Of Hands

[Jane Anon]

So if we are discussing things I will just say that while I have
studied the BM process in ASP and have tried to explain it as clearly
as I could on our website AND have participated in them for years... I
still find them confusing. So any way we can simplify the process
would be awesome. Email is difficult b/c people see the posts at
different times. So I always feel that a lag time of several days is
required to allow everyone to see the latest and respond. This to me
means that the process should be as simple as possible. Polling for a
show of hands is simple imho.

On 9/20/16, Laura M <lauram at asp-afg.org> wrote:
> We are not at the point where we can entertain a motion of any sort.
>
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2016, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi ASPers,
>>
>>
>>
>> While this idea sounds good on the surface, I have a major problems with
>> it.
>> Please stick with me while I explain . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> First, understand that the Al-Anon Group Conscience is based on the
>> members
>> becoming INFORMED during the discussion process and the result is
>> SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY. If the discussion is short-circuited and the
>> members
>> do not become well informed during the discussion, then the process fails
>> and the result is no better than a popular vote by people that know
>> little
>> if anything about the issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> Similarly, SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY is required for everything but the
>> simplest
>> housekeeping matters where an informal "poll" (nodding of heads) is
>> acceptable. On all other matters, there MUST be SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY. In
>> other words, a mere simple majority does not suffice. A minimum of a
>> 2/3's
>> majority is required for most issues, and a 3/4's majority required for
>> some
>> issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> Historically, Al-Anon has said that it didn't follow Robert's Rules of
>> Order
>> in meetings, while in fact that is exactly what it did. That changed in
>> April 2006 when the Al-Anon Board of Trustees announced at the World
>> Service
>> Conference that it had adopted the KBDM process. [I'm posting a history
>> of
>> the KBDM process in a separate message]
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 1, 2006 ASP completed the process of changing from 10 years of
>> operating on my personal server & guidance, to operating on a server paid
>> for by 7th Tradition contributions and with a full suite of elected
>> officers. A member of ASP brought the concept of the KBDM process to ASP
>> Business Meeting sometime after that, and a Group Conscience was taken to
>> adopt the new KBDM process. Information on KBDM was limited at the time,
>> and
>> personal experience with the process was virtually non-existent. So,
>> rather
>> than trying to "wing it" we took what we understood about the process and
>> created a detailed outline to follow. The ASP version of the KBDM process
>> is
>> found at:
>>
>>
>>
>>  <http://asp-afg.org/members/business-meeting-process-at-asp/>
>> http://asp-afg.org/members/business-meeting-process-at-asp/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The leadership of ASP is expected to follow the ASP KBDM process as it is
>> written.
>>
>>
>>
>> The problem is that "taking a poll" at ASP is in reality taking a vote -
>> and
>> that short-circuits the entire KBDM process. Worse, the Chair is
>> suggesting
>> that taking a poll is mandatory. IMHO, taking a poll is the wrong thing
>> to
>> do. A simpler, quicker and more effective way would be for the Chair to
>> simply ask that members who haven't spoken yet or who have changed their
>> minds, to please speak up now so the Chair can have a better feeling for
>> the
>> consensus, if any. That technique not only avoids the admin hassles of a
>> poll/vote, it avoids short-circuiting the KBDM process.  I could go on,
>> but
>> IMHO it's really a mute point. Let me explain  . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> In researching KBDM process, I discovered that there is a significant
>> difference between the basic process at ASP and the basic process as
>> described at several Al-Anon AWS sites. I'll describe that difference by
>> describing the core process at ASP and the core process as it now works
>> in
>> Al-Anon as a whole:
>>
>>
>>
>> A. At ASP we have one phase of discussion where facts and opinions are
>> comingled. What we often see in ASP is many members sharing their
>> opinions
>> on an issue before the facts have been presented. This tends to make the
>> process very muddy as facts are obfuscated by opinions. You can see that
>> during the current "discussion" in the Business Meeting where 6 members
>> have
>> stated their opinion, yet no one has posted anything factual or
>> informative
>> on the subject. How can we have an INFORMED Group Conscience with nothing
>> but opinions [such as "I'm in favor . . ."], but no information? We
>> can't.
>> Opinions at the beginning of the process do nothing to inform and tend to
>> stiffle the discussion - opinions belong at the tail end of the process.
>>
>>
>>
>> B. The KBDM process at the Al-Anon Areas separate the fact & opinion
>> phases.
>> In the fact phase comes first. Members are allowed to ask questions,
>> members
>> are allowed to answer questions, and the Chair may ask specific members
>> to
>> respond/answer specific questions. Opinions are not allowed during the
>> fact
>> phase; the Chair may even stop a member from sharing their opinions
>> during
>> the fact phase. Once the fact phase has been completed, all questions
>> answered and all the facts have been presented, then the opinion phase
>> begins. During the opinion phase, members are allowed to make brief (2
>> minutes in f2f meetings) statements of their opinion.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe that this difference in KBDM process is critical and needs to
>> be
>> addressed before any other changes are considered, including any other
>> substantive motions regardless of the subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> As a result, I recommend that the current discussion be tabled, and ASP
>> modify the written KBDM process used at ASP to reflect the current
>> processes
>> used by face-to-face Al-Anon World Service Areas. I suggest that the
>> Steering Committee study this issue and bring an updated KBDM process to
>> the
>> Business Meeting for approval.
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI: There the Colorado Al-Anon website has an excellent slide show on
>> how
>> the Al-Anon KBDM process works in detail:
>>
>>
>>
>>  <http://www.al-anon-co.org/images/A5_Delegate_ColoradoKBDM.pdf>
>> http://www.al-anon-co.org/images/A5_Delegate_ColoradoKBDM.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>> Hugs,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
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>
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-- 
Jane

"It is easier to put on slippers than to carpet the world." ~Stuart Smalley