[Businessmtg] Show Of Hands

Wed Sep 21 00:52:13 PDT 2016

Sandie, 

I've also been to Assemblies in many Areas. Some issues were decided quickly
by a show of hands. Some issues were decided by a formal vote with GR's
standing for/against/abstain on the issue. And some issues were decided by
secret ballot. Elections were always by secret ballot. Secret balloting is
done to protect the identity of who voted for what/whom. Once the ballots
are in, the tally is never a secret.  

However, in every case the results of every "show of
hands"/vote/ballot/secret ballot was known to everyone present.

The Chair has said that only she and the Webmaster will be privy to the
results (tally) of a "show of hands" poll. I have a real problem with that
kind of secrecy. 

Another point that bothers me with the Agenda Item "Requiring a show of
hands poll before a motion is accepted in the business meeting (voting
required)". 

For 20 years we have tried to keep the guidelines and procedures as simple
as possible. OK, so some of them aren't so simple - that's typical in
Al-Anon. We've also tried to allow a degree of flexibility in how most
things are done. While we definitely have procedures and policies in place
and we expect our trusted servants to abide by them, we've never found it
necessary to use language like "must" or "required". After all, if the
trusted servant is truly trusted we don't need to use that kind of language.
Likewise, if the trusted servant is truly interested in serving, then they
will strive to follow our directions as we have written them, without
alterations.

Note also how the Chair's suggestion not only requires a poll before a
motion is accepted, the members of the Business Meeting are REQUIRED to vote
in the poll. When did we start requiring members to vote? And if we are
going to require them to vote, what is the penalty for not voting? What
comes to mind is either outing them for not voting or banning them from
voting on the motion, or maybe even banning them from the next meeting?
Yeah, I'm sort of joking, but only sort of. If you are going to require that
members do something, then there must be some kind of consequences for
non-compliance. Of course, the Concept 12 forbids punitive action so I'm at
a loss about how to interpret this. 

Even the Steps are "suggested", not required.

Hugs,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Businessmtg
[mailto:businessmtg-bounces+steve=serenitysys.com at asp-afg.org] On Behalf Of
List Administrator
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 7:13 PM
To: Steve - SC
Cc: ASP Business
Subject: Re: [Businessmtg] Show Of Hands

Secret polls are held all of the time in Al-Anon. I doubt that I have ever
been to a election in Al-Anon where balloting was not done secretly. In
every Assembly  I have attended in three different areas all balloting was
done secretly. 

Hugs
Sandie

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 8:56 PM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Some thoughts on the show of hands issue, specifically.
> 
> I'll describe the way I did it for 10 years.
> 
> 1. We know who is in the Business Meeting. We send out a list of 
> everyone in the BM at the start of the meeting, so making a list of 
> who's here is a done deal.
> 
> 2. As members of the BM share on the issue, I'd have at least a clue 
> about how they felt on the issue. Put a "+" next to the name of 
> someone for and issue, a "-" next to the name of someone against the 
> issue.  If/when someone changes their tune, I change the mark next to
their name.
> 
> 3. Anyone that hasn't shared during the meeting is obvious because 
> there is no mark next to their name.
> 
> 4. Ask for members that have not spoken, or who have changed their 
> minds on the issue to speak up. So simple and so efficient. No need to 
> craft the wording of a poll, no need to post a poll on the website, no 
> need to put the meeting on hold while members go to the poll, no need to
tally, etc.
> 
> 5. What if someone doesn't speak up, or changes their mind later? 
> Obviously, I have no clue what the silent folks are thinking, but 
> usually I can tell if there's a swing in thinking when someone bring up a
new facet to the issue.
> Frankly, this is not a problem IF the consensus building is done well. 
> See, an Al-Anon consensus is usually unanimous or very nearly so. If 
> we haven't reached that SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY, then we aren't done 
> with the consensus building.
> 
> 6. As the meeting went on, I'd also write notes about the suggestions. 
> As I started to think we were getting close to a consensus, I'd 
> assemble those notes into a list of points that needed to be part of a 
> motion that represented the consensus.
> 
> 7. If I think we have reached a consensus on Part A of an issue, but 
> not Part B, then I'd post a note saying I think we have a consensus on 
> Part A, so let's just talk about Part B. Maybe A & B can be separated, 
> but I'm loath to do that as sometimes we discover something during the 
> discussion of Part B that changes what we thought about Part A.
> 
> 8. Now, when we get to the point where I think we have a consensus on 
> the issue, I post a message that lists ALL of the points that are part 
> of the consensus, and ask for a motion that covers ALL of those 
> points. If the motion leaves out any points, or is somehow contrary to 
> what I believe is the consensus, then that motion is null and void and I
ask for a new motion.
> 
> 
> 9. Then we create the poll and vote.
> 
> 10. During the entire discussion and deliberation, as the Chair it is 
> important I remain as neutral as possible. My job as the Chair is to 
> guide the group to a consensus that represents the group. It is not my 
> job to influence the group to take a preferred course of action.
> 
> So, that's the way I did it. Frankly, I think it worked quite well and 
> I don't see any good reason to formalize polling the members. For one 
> thing, it creates a situation where meaningful discussions can easily 
> be short-circuited in favor of "efficiency" - or to further an agenda. 
> Also, I've heard way too much side talk in the recent months about how 
> such'n'such is good because X number of members had sent private notes 
> supporting it, and formalizing a polling process further supports this
kind of behavior.
> 
> As for a secret polling of the members? I find that particularly 
> offensive in any setting, much less an Al-Anon meeting.
> 
> Hugs,
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
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