[Businessmtg] Show Of Hands
Sandy Home
graves at eastlink.ca
Wed Sep 21 02:31:40 PDT 2016
Hi ASPers:
I know we are supposed to put principles above personalities. I decided to participate in this business meeting because, just like in my F2F meeting, I believe in service. I also really wanted to have input to the discussion about the over whelming amount of email for this group which has proven to be mostly helpful for me.....like a meeting in my pocket.
I have to say, though, that I quite challenged by this discussion...the length of the emails....and the "tone" of the discussion. It feels like there must already be a bylaw or tradition somewhere that deals with this. Email is different from face to face. It is hard to detect tone or lack thereof. A big part of me wants to withdraw from this discussion and in fact from the group because of it.
With all respect, can we move on from this topic or table it? I have no idea how we are going to get on with this meeting if we can't reach agreement of whether to have a show of hands.
With love and, in truth, a big does of frustration,
Sandy G
Sent from my iPad
> On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:52 AM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
>
> Sandie,
>
> I've also been to Assemblies in many Areas. Some issues were decided quickly
> by a show of hands. Some issues were decided by a formal vote with GR's
> standing for/against/abstain on the issue. And some issues were decided by
> secret ballot. Elections were always by secret ballot. Secret balloting is
> done to protect the identity of who voted for what/whom. Once the ballots
> are in, the tally is never a secret.
>
> However, in every case the results of every "show of
> hands"/vote/ballot/secret ballot was known to everyone present.
>
> The Chair has said that only she and the Webmaster will be privy to the
> results (tally) of a "show of hands" poll. I have a real problem with that
> kind of secrecy.
>
> Another point that bothers me with the Agenda Item "Requiring a show of
> hands poll before a motion is accepted in the business meeting (voting
> required)".
>
> For 20 years we have tried to keep the guidelines and procedures as simple
> as possible. OK, so some of them aren't so simple - that's typical in
> Al-Anon. We've also tried to allow a degree of flexibility in how most
> things are done. While we definitely have procedures and policies in place
> and we expect our trusted servants to abide by them, we've never found it
> necessary to use language like "must" or "required". After all, if the
> trusted servant is truly trusted we don't need to use that kind of language.
> Likewise, if the trusted servant is truly interested in serving, then they
> will strive to follow our directions as we have written them, without
> alterations.
>
> Note also how the Chair's suggestion not only requires a poll before a
> motion is accepted, the members of the Business Meeting are REQUIRED to vote
> in the poll. When did we start requiring members to vote? And if we are
> going to require them to vote, what is the penalty for not voting? What
> comes to mind is either outing them for not voting or banning them from
> voting on the motion, or maybe even banning them from the next meeting?
> Yeah, I'm sort of joking, but only sort of. If you are going to require that
> members do something, then there must be some kind of consequences for
> non-compliance. Of course, the Concept 12 forbids punitive action so I'm at
> a loss about how to interpret this.
>
> Even the Steps are "suggested", not required.
>
> Hugs,
> Steve
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Businessmtg
> [mailto:businessmtg-bounces+steve=serenitysys.com at asp-afg.org] On Behalf Of
> List Administrator
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 7:13 PM
> To: Steve - SC
> Cc: ASP Business
> Subject: Re: [Businessmtg] Show Of Hands
>
> Secret polls are held all of the time in Al-Anon. I doubt that I have ever
> been to a election in Al-Anon where balloting was not done secretly. In
> every Assembly I have attended in three different areas all balloting was
> done secretly.
>
> Hugs
> Sandie
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Sep 20, 2016, at 8:56 PM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Some thoughts on the show of hands issue, specifically.
>>
>> I'll describe the way I did it for 10 years.
>>
>> 1. We know who is in the Business Meeting. We send out a list of
>> everyone in the BM at the start of the meeting, so making a list of
>> who's here is a done deal.
>>
>> 2. As members of the BM share on the issue, I'd have at least a clue
>> about how they felt on the issue. Put a "+" next to the name of
>> someone for and issue, a "-" next to the name of someone against the
>> issue. If/when someone changes their tune, I change the mark next to
> their name.
>>
>> 3. Anyone that hasn't shared during the meeting is obvious because
>> there is no mark next to their name.
>>
>> 4. Ask for members that have not spoken, or who have changed their
>> minds on the issue to speak up. So simple and so efficient. No need to
>> craft the wording of a poll, no need to post a poll on the website, no
>> need to put the meeting on hold while members go to the poll, no need to
> tally, etc.
>>
>> 5. What if someone doesn't speak up, or changes their mind later?
>> Obviously, I have no clue what the silent folks are thinking, but
>> usually I can tell if there's a swing in thinking when someone bring up a
> new facet to the issue.
>> Frankly, this is not a problem IF the consensus building is done well.
>> See, an Al-Anon consensus is usually unanimous or very nearly so. If
>> we haven't reached that SUBSTANTIAL UNANIMITY, then we aren't done
>> with the consensus building.
>>
>> 6. As the meeting went on, I'd also write notes about the suggestions.
>> As I started to think we were getting close to a consensus, I'd
>> assemble those notes into a list of points that needed to be part of a
>> motion that represented the consensus.
>>
>> 7. If I think we have reached a consensus on Part A of an issue, but
>> not Part B, then I'd post a note saying I think we have a consensus on
>> Part A, so let's just talk about Part B. Maybe A & B can be separated,
>> but I'm loath to do that as sometimes we discover something during the
>> discussion of Part B that changes what we thought about Part A.
>>
>> 8. Now, when we get to the point where I think we have a consensus on
>> the issue, I post a message that lists ALL of the points that are part
>> of the consensus, and ask for a motion that covers ALL of those
>> points. If the motion leaves out any points, or is somehow contrary to
>> what I believe is the consensus, then that motion is null and void and I
> ask for a new motion.
>>
>>
>> 9. Then we create the poll and vote.
>>
>> 10. During the entire discussion and deliberation, as the Chair it is
>> important I remain as neutral as possible. My job as the Chair is to
>> guide the group to a consensus that represents the group. It is not my
>> job to influence the group to take a preferred course of action.
>>
>> So, that's the way I did it. Frankly, I think it worked quite well and
>> I don't see any good reason to formalize polling the members. For one
>> thing, it creates a situation where meaningful discussions can easily
>> be short-circuited in favor of "efficiency" - or to further an agenda.
>> Also, I've heard way too much side talk in the recent months about how
>> such'n'such is good because X number of members had sent private notes
>> supporting it, and formalizing a polling process further supports this
> kind of behavior.
>>
>> As for a secret polling of the members? I find that particularly
>> offensive in any setting, much less an Al-Anon meeting.
>>
>> Hugs,
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The ASP Instruction page is
>> http://asp-afg.org/members/asp-instructions/
>>
>> The ASP web site for ASP members is http://www.asp-afg.org/Members/
>>
>> For assistance with other ASP issues, contact the List Administrator,
>> at list_administrator at asp-afg.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Businessmtg mailing list
>> Businessmtg at asp-afg.org
>> http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/businessmtg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The ASP Instruction page is http://asp-afg.org/members/asp-instructions/
>
> The ASP web site for ASP members is http://www.asp-afg.org/Members/
>
> For assistance with other ASP issues, contact the List Administrator, at
> list_administrator at asp-afg.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Businessmtg mailing list
> Businessmtg at asp-afg.org
> http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/businessmtg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The ASP Instruction page is http://asp-afg.org/members/asp-instructions/
>
> The ASP web site for ASP members is http://www.asp-afg.org/Members/
>
> For assistance with other ASP issues, contact the List Administrator, at list_administrator at asp-afg.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Businessmtg mailing list
> Businessmtg at asp-afg.org
> http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/businessmtg
More information about the Businessmtg
mailing list