[Businessmtg] Any questions about the process/idea of a show of hands?

[Steve Rankin]

Hi ASPers,

Laura (the Chair) stated:

"2) A show of hands is not a vote. Only the web master and the chair would
have access to that data, and it wouldn't be published. It is simply to make
sure everyone is being heard."

The last poll was a vote, plain and simple. There was a ballot with options
to "vote" on, one of the options "won", and action was taken as a result of
the "vote". I don't really care how much you wordsmith it, we took a vote
and that voted affected ASP. 

I am VERY concerned that only the web master and Chair would have access to
the "show of hands" data. See, if this is truly a show of hands, then
everyone in the room would be able to see the hands go up. Everyone in the
room would see what the balance of opinion was and everyone would know who
held which opinion. No secrets. What Laura is suggesting is not only a
secret ballot, but the results would also be secret. That is entirely
contrary to Al-Anon principles. 



3) Doing a poll is the only way I can see to make sure that people who have
changed their minds make their preferences known, if they choose to
participate. Otherwise the discussion will be inundated with "I agree". It
is also a way to capture opinions of people who feel they don't have
anything to add to the discussion can be heard.

I disagree. When I chaired the Business Meetings, I used a list of members
in the Business Meeting to keep a tally of who was for/against an issue. We
publish a list of everyone in the meeting at the start of the meeting, so
making the list is a done deal. Putting check marks next to names is easy.
It also makes it easy to see who has not spoken on the issue. If I want to
know what they think about the issue, simply ask them. That's a lot easier
than drafting the wording of a poll***, creating the poll, waiting several
days while everyone responds to the poll, yada yada. 

***  NOTE: the wording of a poll, or motion, is critical. 

Is the wording vague with significant details unsaid? 

Is some detail offensive? I often find myself in favor of an issue in
general, but something in the wording of the motion is a fatal error. It is
not unusual for Al-Anons to create a motion with some detail in the motion
that violates a Tradition. When that happens I must vote no because of that
small but fatal detail. The detail can be as small and simple as a comma. 

This is especially bothersome as it is being presented because we have no
input on the wording of the poll. OTOH, we would have input in the wording
of a motion, and an opportunity to fix the wording. 

Hugs,
Steve


-----Original Message-----
From: Businessmtg
[mailto:businessmtg-bounces+steve=serenitysys.com at asp-afg.org] On Behalf Of
Laura M
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 5:51 AM
To: Steve - SC
Cc: ASP Business
Subject: [Businessmtg] Any questions about the process/idea of a show of
hands?

I wanted to address a couple of objections, and inquire into other
questions.

1) We're not voting on anything right now. This is just the fact-finding,
combined with opinion phase. There aren't a whole lot of facts to discuss on
this matter, and those have been brought up by Jerry and Steve. If anyone
has any other ESH about KBDM, that would be welcome.

2) A show of hands is not a vote. Only the web master and the chair would
have access to that data, and it wouldn't be published. It is simply to make
sure everyone is being heard.


3) Once consensus has been reached, then the chair will entertain a motion.
Not before. At that point we can do the whole voting thing.

I hope this clarifies things.

Laura M
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