[Businessmtg] Any questions about the process/idea of a show of hands?

[Adele Steirnagle]

My SouCal Al-Anon area has purchased little handheld voting devices. When I first became a GR, voting took 3 or 4 hours. With these little things voting is a breeze. One of Al-Anon's least favorite thing, dominance, is no longer an issue after you push your button.
Adele

sent from my iPad

> On Sep 20, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi ASPers,
> 
> Laura (the Chair) stated:
> 
> "2) A show of hands is not a vote. Only the web master and the chair would
> have access to that data, and it wouldn't be published. It is simply to make
> sure everyone is being heard."
> 
> The last poll was a vote, plain and simple. There was a ballot with options
> to "vote" on, one of the options "won", and action was taken as a result of
> the "vote". I don't really care how much you wordsmith it, we took a vote
> and that voted affected ASP. 
> 
> I am VERY concerned that only the web master and Chair would have access to
> the "show of hands" data. See, if this is truly a show of hands, then
> everyone in the room would be able to see the hands go up. Everyone in the
> room would see what the balance of opinion was and everyone would know who
> held which opinion. No secrets. What Laura is suggesting is not only a
> secret ballot, but the results would also be secret. That is entirely
> contrary to Al-Anon principles. 
> 
> 
> 
> 3) Doing a poll is the only way I can see to make sure that people who have
> changed their minds make their preferences known, if they choose to
> participate. Otherwise the discussion will be inundated with "I agree". It
> is also a way to capture opinions of people who feel they don't have
> anything to add to the discussion can be heard.
> 
> I disagree. When I chaired the Business Meetings, I used a list of members
> in the Business Meeting to keep a tally of who was for/against an issue. We
> publish a list of everyone in the meeting at the start of the meeting, so
> making the list is a done deal. Putting check marks next to names is easy.
> It also makes it easy to see who has not spoken on the issue. If I want to
> know what they think about the issue, simply ask them. That's a lot easier
> than drafting the wording of a poll***, creating the poll, waiting several
> days while everyone responds to the poll, yada yada. 
> 
> ***  NOTE: the wording of a poll, or motion, is critical. 
> 
> Is the wording vague with significant details unsaid? 
> 
> Is some detail offensive? I often find myself in favor of an issue in
> general, but something in the wording of the motion is a fatal error. It is
> not unusual for Al-Anons to create a motion with some detail in the motion
> that violates a Tradition. When that happens I must vote no because of that
> small but fatal detail. The detail can be as small and simple as a comma. 
> 
> This is especially bothersome as it is being presented because we have no
> input on the wording of the poll. OTOH, we would have input in the wording
> of a motion, and an opportunity to fix the wording. 
> 
> Hugs,
> Steve
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Businessmtg
> [mailto:businessmtg-bounces+steve=serenitysys.com at asp-afg.org] On Behalf Of
> Laura M
> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 5:51 AM
> To: Steve - SC
> Cc: ASP Business
> Subject: [Businessmtg] Any questions about the process/idea of a show of
> hands?
> 
> I wanted to address a couple of objections, and inquire into other
> questions.
> 
> 1) We're not voting on anything right now. This is just the fact-finding,
> combined with opinion phase. There aren't a whole lot of facts to discuss on
> this matter, and those have been brought up by Jerry and Steve. If anyone
> has any other ESH about KBDM, that would be welcome.
> 
> 2) A show of hands is not a vote. Only the web master and the chair would
> have access to that data, and it wouldn't be published. It is simply to make
> sure everyone is being heard.
> 
> 
> 3) Once consensus has been reached, then the chair will entertain a motion.
> Not before. At that point we can do the whole voting thing.
> 
> I hope this clarifies things.
> 
> Laura M
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