[Businessmtg] Any questions about the process/idea of a show of hands?

[Darwi Odrade]

Oh, I know what you talking about, I used something similar in my teaching at the university. Very handy. 
And students loved it. 
You’re right, the method is fast, transparent and fair. 

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 08:57, Adele Steirnagle <asteirnagle at me.com> wrote:
> 
> My SouCal Al-Anon area has purchased little handheld voting devices. When I first became a GR, voting took 3 or 4 hours. With these little things voting is a breeze. One of Al-Anon's least favorite thing, dominance, is no longer an issue after you push your button.
> Adele
> 
> sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 20, 2016, at 1:12 PM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ASPers,
>> 
>> Laura (the Chair) stated:
>> 
>> "2) A show of hands is not a vote. Only the web master and the chair would
>> have access to that data, and it wouldn't be published. It is simply to make
>> sure everyone is being heard."
>> 
>> The last poll was a vote, plain and simple. There was a ballot with options
>> to "vote" on, one of the options "won", and action was taken as a result of
>> the "vote". I don't really care how much you wordsmith it, we took a vote
>> and that voted affected ASP. 
>> 
>> I am VERY concerned that only the web master and Chair would have access to
>> the "show of hands" data. See, if this is truly a show of hands, then
>> everyone in the room would be able to see the hands go up. Everyone in the
>> room would see what the balance of opinion was and everyone would know who
>> held which opinion. No secrets. What Laura is suggesting is not only a
>> secret ballot, but the results would also be secret. That is entirely
>> contrary to Al-Anon principles. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 3) Doing a poll is the only way I can see to make sure that people who have
>> changed their minds make their preferences known, if they choose to
>> participate. Otherwise the discussion will be inundated with "I agree". It
>> is also a way to capture opinions of people who feel they don't have
>> anything to add to the discussion can be heard.
>> 
>> I disagree. When I chaired the Business Meetings, I used a list of members
>> in the Business Meeting to keep a tally of who was for/against an issue. We
>> publish a list of everyone in the meeting at the start of the meeting, so
>> making the list is a done deal. Putting check marks next to names is easy.
>> It also makes it easy to see who has not spoken on the issue. If I want to
>> know what they think about the issue, simply ask them. That's a lot easier
>> than drafting the wording of a poll***, creating the poll, waiting several
>> days while everyone responds to the poll, yada yada. 
>> 
>> ***  NOTE: the wording of a poll, or motion, is critical. 
>> 
>> Is the wording vague with significant details unsaid? 
>> 
>> Is some detail offensive? I often find myself in favor of an issue in
>> general, but something in the wording of the motion is a fatal error. It is
>> not unusual for Al-Anons to create a motion with some detail in the motion
>> that violates a Tradition. When that happens I must vote no because of that
>> small but fatal detail. The detail can be as small and simple as a comma. 
>> 
>> This is especially bothersome as it is being presented because we have no
>> input on the wording of the poll. OTOH, we would have input in the wording
>> of a motion, and an opportunity to fix the wording. 
>> 
>> Hugs,
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Businessmtg
>> [mailto:businessmtg-bounces+steve=serenitysys.com at asp-afg.org] On Behalf Of
>> Laura M
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2016 5:51 AM
>> To: Steve - SC
>> Cc: ASP Business
>> Subject: [Businessmtg] Any questions about the process/idea of a show of
>> hands?
>> 
>> I wanted to address a couple of objections, and inquire into other
>> questions.
>> 
>> 1) We're not voting on anything right now. This is just the fact-finding,
>> combined with opinion phase. There aren't a whole lot of facts to discuss on
>> this matter, and those have been brought up by Jerry and Steve. If anyone
>> has any other ESH about KBDM, that would be welcome.
>> 
>> 2) A show of hands is not a vote. Only the web master and the chair would
>> have access to that data, and it wouldn't be published. It is simply to make
>> sure everyone is being heard.
>> 
>> 
>> 3) Once consensus has been reached, then the chair will entertain a motion.
>> Not before. At that point we can do the whole voting thing.
>> 
>> I hope this clarifies things.
>> 
>> Laura M
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> 
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