[Businessmtg] Motion #4 Discussions - Proposed Secretary/Webmaster Changes

[Steve Rankin]

Hi Jerry,

As I have said before, and Anne stated earlier this evening, the SC is NOT
trying to reduce the number of seats on the Steering Committee.  There is
nothing in our recommendation that even hints at that.  Please read the
recommendation of the SC carefully.  We are discussing the 3 major changes
one at a time, as we work to reach a consensus on the entire re-write of
Motion #4 just as described in the KBDM process described in KBDM section
Vii. B. 2. thru 6. 

Second, you began discussing the part about the Founders.  Anne quite
correctly pointed out your error on this, but I need to point out that we
are not discussing that point at this time.  Please stick to the agenda
points as we work through them one at a time.

As for your comment that the SC's recommended changes are not tied together,
I disagree.  
First, I'll point out that they have been tied together into one motion
since February 2006.  So, for the last 15+ years, they have been joined at
the hip.  
Second, if we did separate them and proceeded to update them individually,
it would take years to go through this process.  Remember, it takes a
minimum of 6 months to move any one of these issues through the process.
Minimum.  I can't imagine a benefit to ASP by spending the next several
years wading through an update of Motion #4 piecemeal; a motion that we
originally spent less than a month on?   
Third, if we separated the issues in updating Motion #4, we'd wind up with a
complex series of motions that many members would struggle to comprehend.
We've already had more than enough problems with some members of the SC
complying with the simplicity of Motion #4.  

As for your other comments and questions, I am not going to respond to them
at this time and further distract the current discussion in the Business
Meeting.  

Hugs,
Steve





-----Original Message-----
From: Businessmtg On Behalf Of Jerry
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2021 5:03 PM
To: steve at serenitysys.com
Cc: ASP Business <businessmtg at asp-afg.org>
Subject: Re: [Businessmtg] Motion #4 Discussions - Proposed
Secretary/Webmaster Changes

Question for Steve re: his response - and additional thoughts

If there's been an accepted consensus that we certainly will have a GR, AND
that our GR will have a seat on the SC - which I don't yet understand is an
absolute - how are we to assume the SC will still have the same number of
seats? And what of the two other general member seats?

Discussing a potential webmaster deletion paired with permitting the
appointment of a secretary's assistant without an absolute consensus that
our GR will be on the SC leaves the door open for a vote which could delete
a SC seat. I've stated my opposition on deleting any SC seats. I think that
single loss would do greater harm to the health of the group than any small
gain from just moving the webmaster job under the Secretary's roof in
whatever form.

BTW, what, again, is the gain to the group of this combination? To me it's a
wash at best and the loss of one more input on the SC at worse. Who's to say
that ADDING a seat to the SC (the GR) wouldn't serve the group better?

Obvious answer would be something like, "We already don't have enough
qualified members to stand for and fill the seats we already have, and you
want to add another SC seat?"

To which I answer: Yes. Change the darn qualifications and get rid of the
dominance which insists on maintaining the old ways of thinking. Like it or
not we're now an Al-Anon Group made up of equals, not a few experienced
decision makers and then everybody, the unqualified, else. Time we started
acting like one to my mind. Open up the gates.

Then there's the coming discussion of putting the Founders in charge of
interpreting what our published words actually say/mean which, if accepted,
would give ultimate power to two people which adds to my concerns about the
potential loss of SC seats (never gained) and opportunities for service. Our
words are pretty darn clear on their own and in most cases ammendable by a
Group Conscience (where, by program definition, our Higher Power expresses
Him/Herself.) "For our Group purpose there is but one authority - a loving
God as He may express Himself in our group conscience..."  More members'
participation in ASP leadership roles and decisions (remember: participation
is the key to harmony) would mean we'd have a better understanding of
His/Her will, yes? 

KBDM says that only where consensus exists do we formulate a motion. These
three suggestions are not tied together as all or nothing. They all would
have effects on how our group moves forward in this new electronic era. But
none address the more serious problem of being structured in a way which
purposefully hinders service and thus minimizes the spiritual contributions
member equality offers.

I believe we need to trust the process Al-Anon has gifted us. For as long as
I've been a member of ASP, well before the 2006 change, I've heard over and
over again complaint after complaint from some quarters about how on-line
meetings were being treated as "less than" the regular Al-Anon Groups by the
WSO. It seems now, though, we're thinking about voting on two items which
could make us less like a regular Al-Anon Group than more like one.

In service,
Jerry H.
-




On September 16, 2021, at 11:45 AM, Steve Rankin <steve at serenitysys.com>
wrote:

Hi Jerry,

As we discussed in the last Business Meeting, our recommendation deletes one
position and adds another - there is no net change in the number of
positions on the Steering Committee.  

I repeat, we are not recommending any change in the number of seats on the
Steering Committee.

Hugs,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Businessmtg On Behalf Of Jerry
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2021 5:42 AM
To: steve at serenitysys.com
Cc: ASP Business <businessmtg at asp-afg.org>
Subject: [Businessmtg] Motion #4 Discussions - Proposed Secretary/Webmaster
Changes

Biz-Pals,

- - - - -

The three sections of Motion #4 that we'll discuss this month are:
1.	Group Representative
2.	Web Master rolled into Secretary
3.	Founders

- - - - -

Currently on the Floor:
2. Web Master rolled into Secretary

As I stated in previous Business Meetings I strongly oppose combining the
Webmaster and Secretary positions.

Any act which decreases the number of seats on ASP's Steering Committee not
only diminishes the opportunities for members to take leadership roles at
ASP, but also minimizes the variety of inputs to Steering Committee
discussions that having more SC members enables.

It goes without saying that having fewer seats filled on the Steering
Committee increases the power and influence of those positions which would
remain. In the past there have been occasions when one or two Steering
Committee members have exerted influence above their stations only to be
countered by the balance of other SC members.

This ability to maintain a counterbalance to strongly-willed and charismatic
personalities is diminished by reducing the number of seats on the Steering
Committee. This I am opposed to doing.

In service,
Jerry H.
-
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To Unsubscribe, go to: http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/asp
The ASP web site with all kinds of info for ASP members is
http://asp-afg.org/members/ For assistance with other ASP issues, contact
Steve the Founder of ASP, at steve at serenitysys.com
____________________________ To Unsubscribe, go to:
http://www.asp-afg.org/mailman/listinfo/asp
The ASP web site with all kinds of info for ASP members is
http://asp-afg.org/members/ For assistance with other ASP issues, contact
Steve the Founder of ASP, at steve at serenitysys.com